Looking for a New Publisher?

[Ginger Simpson]

Eternal Press, http://www.eternalpress.com.au
is opening their doors on September 7th. In addition to the new books ready for release, they are also welcoming submissions in most genres. Check them out. I have a vested interest as they are re-releasing my 2003 debut novel, Prairie Peace. :)

We hope to see you at the launch party at the readers loop on the 7th. Their promises to be authors with excerpts, prizes, and just a good time. Join here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/EternalPressReaders/

[Tim Quinton]

Yes, I am looking for a publisher. But I do not want a vanity press (my classification for this is: any company that you have to pay for any part of the publishing process). POD sounds great at first, until you find out that they never plan to print more than a few hundred books.

[Julie Ann Shapiro]

They are not a vanity press and have top notch editors on board.

[Tim Quinton]

Dear Julie Ann Shapiro,
I see that you do not classify them as a vanity press. No, they do not charge for e-books. But if you will read my comment again, I state that I regard any company that charges for publishing a vanity press (self-publish or what ever name it may have). Where you may live, e-books may be common. Here, where I live, readers want something that they can put on the shelf or coffee table. Something that is maliable in their hands. The company you mentioned states on their home page that they charge a "subsidy" for printed trade paperback books. I have seen many of these type of publishers. You actually are paying for the printing of your book. Even though some of them state that they will refund the subsidy after so many books are sold, this still means that the writer is the person footing the bill until that time.

[Julie Ann Shapiro]

Tom,
Yes, in my area ebooks are widely read. I do think they are the way of the future. I can see your point. However, I don't view this company or the countless others in this space as vanity or subsidy press. I think of subsidy presses as the ones where the author pays for everything. If the author doesn't want the book in print they don't have to go the print on demand route.

Julie

[Tim Quinton]

Hi, my name is TIM, which is a different vowel in the english language.
Now, I'm sorry that I may have offended someone with my opinion. Which, if you will read is what I stated, it is my opinion. Also I know that there some people (do not say a lot) who still do not have computers in their homes. There are still those who may have computers but are not connected to the internet. I know, your gasping, asking in what 3rd world country do I live in. Its only people's ignorance that they make such assumptions that everyone is plugging into the universal electronic mind. As for paying $400 for a cell phone, whether it can store movies that you can watch on its small screen. I'm quite sure that for every person who bought an Iphone, there are a thousand people who have pay as you go cell phones.
But since it seems that somone has taken offense to my statements, let me ask this question. Alright you go and have your book published as an e-book. When a reader ask for a signed copy, in which corner of their monitor do you put your signature in. What if someone wants to give your book to someone as a present. Do they hand them a CD with your book in file form (which also brings up the question of someone downloading your e-book, then distributing it throughout the world for free). When I go to a signing at a bookstore, or even at a local gathering. Do I open up my laptop on the table and show them what they can get online. What about that truckdriver that is one of my most loyal fans. He reads my book when he's sitting at home relaxing between loads. I can tell you right now, that he doesn't want to sit in front of his computer for hours on end reading anyones stories. He wants to sit down in his chair, next to his wife (who is also reading) and relax while reading a printed book.
All of this reminds me of a Star Trek episode (some of you may not watch scifi or may be to young), where Captain Kirk was put on trial for causing the death of a crewmember. His laywer hated computers, stating that you can get any information that you want from the machine sitting on the table. But you could never have the enjoyment of sitting a reading a good book. And for those who do watch Star Trek, you will remember in The Wrath of Khan, Spock gave Captain Kirk a book for his birthday at the beginning of the movie. Showing that even in the future, a printed book is something to be treasured.
As for the publisher going out of business printing up 450 book titles per year. I can't really see a publisher's staff offering that many titles per year. By this I mean, you would have to have a tremendous number of editors working to put out more than a book per day. And for the cost, I've had plenty of printing companys that have sent me offers for set ups as low as $300 per book. With a print cost as low as $5 per book for a trade paperback.
Now I know that this is going to be total disagreement to some. But remember, this is my opinion. Which I'll state again. I feel that if you have to pay for any portion of the publishing process, then you are self-publishing the book. To me there is no incentive to the company to perform. A true publishing company makes an investment in the author's book, where they are going to help get the author's book out to the world, so that they can recoup their investiment and make more money. Tell me the truth (figure of speech), if someone came to you, gave you money to do nothing but sit on your butt, would you take the money. If a person came to you, said "Give me a thousand dollars and I'll have a printer print your book." Would you give this person a thousand dollars to work as the middle man for this adventure. Or would you spend a third of that to have it printed yourself.
At no time during this, I have never stated taht Eternal Press was a vanity press. Its just not a publisher that I would go with. I want a book in my hands. I want a book that when I'm standing in a bookstore, surrounded by thousands of other books. I can hand the book to the reader, talk to the reader and tell them why my book is much better than the book they actually came into the store to get. And probably better than the book that they are going to purchase online, where they are going to sit for hours on end staring at their comptuer's monitor. Or staring at a little 5 inch screen causing my eye sight to become worse than it is.

[Julie Ann Shapiro]

Hi Kat,
Thanks for explaining more about the ebook publishing industry. There's so much confusion out there.

Julie

Tim,

Here is an essay I wrote a while back about why digital fiction should be taken seriously. I've recently revised it to reflect Amazon's upcoming ebook device. Of course, I'm a fan of digital publishing. I think it's the way many great authors will get discovered as the main stream publishing are giving up and coming authors less and less chances to get published.

Julie

Julie

Why You Should Take Literary Digital Fiction Seriously

It’s the way of the future unless your idea of good writing is the screenplay version of a novel and the block busters that mimic each other with formulaic plots. If you like those kinds of books then go ahead and read them; the mainstream publishers have a ton of those books in the name of cash, yes cash, not art.

If you’re of the other persuasion that likes something a little different with a fresh voice, words that make you think, lyrical imagery, powerful language, characters that taunt you with their predicaments and their emotions, then click on over to the digital realm. I think you’ll be pleasantly surprised. It’s fast becoming a home for experimental and bold fiction that’s not afraid to take chances much like independent films. It serves a growing audience that wants art for art sake and not the corporate conglomerate’s who are more concerned with cash renderings than discovering new talent.

Yes, talent, that’s what you’ll find in the digital realm. As more and more legions of writers are shut out by the main stream publishing conglomerates they will have no choice, but to seek out other avenues. For this reason some may liken digital publishing to self-publishing. While it’s true that anyone can be published in the digital environment, it doesn’t mean that by association it is a place to shun or disrespect.

This neglects the marketplace and the recognition that there are a plethora of well respected independent literary publishers such as Double Dragon Press, Zumaya, Phaze, Mundania Press, SynergEbooks, New Concepts Publishing, Boson Books, C & M Online, Samhain Publishing, Echelon Press, Silk’s Vault and countless others who choose to offer books digitally. Not to mention the major distribution channels established for ebooks including Fictionwise, Amazon.com and Mobipocket.

Even the mainstream publishers recognize the dynamic medium that digital books offer. Most of them now have ebook divisions and are seeking to capitalize on the vast Internet audience, the massive amounts of people using PDAs and other mobile devices that support ebook readers. Last fall, Harlequin announced that 40% of its new titles would be issued as ebooks.

According to the September 5, 2007 article in the New York Times, Envisioning the Next Chapter for Electronic Books, “Amazon.com will unveil the Kindle, an electronic book reader priced at $400 to $500 which will wirelessly connect to an e-book store on Amazon’s site. This is a significant advance over older e-book devices, which must be connected to a computer to download books or articles.

Google also has plans to start charging users for digital copies of books in their database. Despite these two major Internet leaders plans to further their reach in the digital publishing market, and respected publishers in the ebook marketplace legions of consumers still don’t view digital books as real books. Many consumers in turn are hesitant to purchase ebooks, even though they are vastly cheaper than their print counterparts, not to mention the environmental factor of saving trees. In turn many traditional book reviewers will not consider reviewing a digital book. The authors of ebook books and even epublishers at times feel like Rodney Dangerfield uttering his famous refrain, “I don’t get no respect.”


It’s time to recognize digital books as real books and applaud digital publishers for giving innovative authors a chance. Let’s recognize that they are entrepreneurs living out the American Dream and carving a literary niche in a difficult market. Thousands of very good books are turned down by the mainstream publishers every year for the basic reason that they are not commercial enough…i.e. they won’t generate enough cash.

If you love books, support a digital literary writer by reading and reviewing their books. Good books deserve to be given a chance. This is your literary future, your legacy.

[Elizabeth Burton]

Independent ebook publishers unwilling to commit their own resources to producing print books for those authors under contract who want them have opted to charge those authors for the set-up fee. There are other alternatives that make this unnecessary. However, they have all opted to ignore the standard definition of "subsidy publishing" on the grounds that they are somehow exempt from having it applied to their operation because they are "just doing a favor for the author."

Note I didn't say "vanity" publishing. Although the two can be the same, they aren't synonymous. It's that which drives the ebook publishers to insist what they do isn't subsidy, even though it patently is. No one will argue that the usual criticisms of vanity/subsidy publishing don't apply, since the books in question have been vetted and edited prior to publication. However, to the industry at large--and if the respect of that industry is of any concern to the authors in question--what's being done is subsidy publishing, and those who participate in it will have to be prepared to defend the quality of their work.

As for Preditors & Editors approving this arrangement, not making a point of noting it isn't the same as approval--and given the definition of "subsidy publishing" can be found in any dictionary it certainly isn't necessary for them to point it out, especially since any writer planning a professional career as such should know that's the case.

It's nothing to do with dedication to authors, readers or anyone else. It's to do with how one is perceived in the industry in which one desires to operate. If the opinions of the mainstream don't matter, then neither does how a publisher provides print books. This is the standard argument offered in defense of having authors pay set-up fees for print books--that the independent ebook industry isn't bound by rules established by the mainstream. That's fine, but any author considering entering such an arrangement needs to be fully instructed on the down side, which is that if it's learned they paid to have the book published they'll be automatically labeled "vanity published."

[Carol Shenold]

With Eternal Press, when a book is released as an ebook, it has already gone through rigorous editing, shaping and is released as a finished product, meeting the same stringent guidelines and quality standards as any publisher out there, including those paper and hard back publishers who seem to feel so threatened by the e-book that they feel obliged to malign them all. Many authors never opt for a printed-on-paper format. The company does the authors the service of offering this option as something they can do later on in production if they wish. As an author I do not feel paying a nominal printer fee in any way equates this publisher with vanity or subsidy publishing. I also do not feel that the book has to come out in paper to be a "real book." There are more and more ebook publishers being recognized by the "mainstream" as legitimate.

However, it is always nice for authors only published by brick and morter companies to have a reason to feel superior to other good writers by noting that another writer is published by an e publisher and therefore not in the same class. Nothing like discrimination in a field where we should all be supporting each other in the production of the written word, rather than using semantics to prove one better than the other.

[Elizabeth Burton]

>>With Eternal Press, when a book is released as an ebook, it has already gone through rigorous editing, shaping and is released as a finished product, meeting the same stringent guidelines and quality standards as any publisher out there, including those paper and hard back publishers who seem to feel so threatened by the e-book that they feel obliged to malign them all.<<

Please provide citations or links to sources for this statement. I've never yet encountered a print publisher who "maligned" ebooks. They may not have kind words for much of the independent industry, and unfortunately, my experience is they are too frequently correct.

>>As an author I do not feel paying a nominal printer fee in any way equates this publisher with vanity or subsidy publishing. I also do not feel that the book has to come out in paper to be a "real book." There are more and more ebook publishers being recognized by the "mainstream" as legitimate.<<

Who, Ellora's Cave? Only after they went to print and lucked out by being set up across from Borders at BEA. Every ebook publisher I know that's been accepted by booksellers achieved that on the basis of their print books.

And how you as an author feel about the process is irrelevant. If it doesn't bother you that, should you opt to go for print, you're going to be considered subsidy published, fine. Have at it. But get some actual facts about the reality of the industry first.

The fact is, if you were all so confident of your work, you wouldn't be so defensive. If you truly believed ebook published was the equivalent of print published, you wouldn't feel the need to constantly tell everyone how much better ebooks and ebook publishing are. If you truly believe your way is the best way, then you go about it and ignore what everyone else says and does.

Confident people don't need a paper tiger to fight to prove their worth, and that's precisely what the myth that mainstream publishing has it in for independent ebook publishing because they're afraid of the competition is. These are businesses. If they see a way to maximize their revenue stream, they'll grab it. Witness Harlequin.

If your book is of sufficient quality to match anything New York publishes--not in your opinion, or the readers' opinion but in the opinion of OTHER WRITERS--then you have nothing to worry about. If it's available with a sufficient number of vendors anyone who wants it can find it, that's all that matters.

And if you don't care whether it ever gets in print, that's fine, too. However, the print book is still--and will be for some time to come--what most writers think of when they think of being published, and that includes many ebook-published writers. It has nothing to do with discrimination but solely with the reality of the industry. Bookstores don't sell ebooks. Period.

[Carol Shenold]

Interesting how eager you are to fight the paper tiger. As for an opinion that matters, for writers, it Actually is the READER who matters, not other writers and their opinions. Other writers may or may not recognize quality when they read it. Readers do want to be entertained. That is the business we, as writers are in. I don't really want a book published that other writers think is the greatest thing since sliced bread, as does the "publishing industry" if no one reads it. I am a reader. I want to be entertained, and possibly not by someone who doesn't care what I like because I only want "brain candy." Dickens and Shakespeare were considered brain candy for the common folk in their day.
It's like movie makers who make trashy movies, rake in the money and laugh at the very people who made the money for them.
So, if my book continues to receive good reviews and readers like it, I'm happy. I've done what I set out to do, give someone a few hours of escapist pleasure. Luckily, I'm not trying to please the world, just people who like to be entertained. Those who wish to proclaim their legitimacy over that of others, will continue to do so, and ever after, so shall it be.

[Ginger Simpson]

Just curious. Are you the "I" on the submissions page for Zumaya? As in "I won't read..."

[Elizabeth Burton]

That would be me, yes. I prefer to be honest with people considering submitting to us--and you'd be amazed how many either don't bother to read those guidelines or decide I don't mean them. ;-)